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Torch Talk with Jeff Hardy, pt. 4
Originally Published: October 22, 2005
Torch Newsletter #884

The following is the fourth installment of a two-and-a-half hour "Torch Talk" interview with Jeff Hardy conducted Sept. 15.

Wade Keller: From being around Samoa Joe and A.J. Styles and Christopher Daniels, have they come up to you and asked you for any advice about perhaps burning out physically given their style of wrestling? If not, have you ever thought of approaching them about that, telling them, "Hey, I’ve been through what you guys are going through. Let me tell you something, if you start slowing down really gradually now and you pick your spots, fans aren’t going to care, they’re still going to be behind you, and you’ll have a longer career"?

Jeff Hardy: No, they’ve never come to me and I’ve never gone to them. It’s hard to sense or know the amount of desire that they truly have. Well, it shows through their work naturally. I don’t think they’re worried about it at all because they’re smart and they know what they can do and what they can’t. I’ve just always been the type of person that, like, anything’s possible. I even worry about it too much going into the matches, especially now. Man, I hope I don’t get hurt. In the past, I’d have never even thought (those things). I knew it was possible, but I wouldn’t talk about it nearly as much. Now in the ring I try to be so much safer to where I think about things a lot more. That’s one of the biggest differences between the me now and the me then. Hesitation can cause problems. I was always a big believer, especially like jumping off of ladders and that kind of crazy stuff, not to hesitate and everything will be fine because all of the times I had hesitated in the past and been worried about it too much, I’d get hurt. I really am at that stage now as far as I think about it too much, but I’ve been lucky (not to get hurt as a result).

Keller: Do you think if you wrestled more often that wouldn’t be the case, or does that have to do with age and your bump card?

Hardy: It’s probably got a little bit of both. I know if I did more independent shows, I would be in much better shape as far as conditioning. I’m doing one independent show coming up because I knew that this whole Spike deal and Bound for Glory was going to be right around that same time and I figured it was a good time to do a few independents to just kind of warm up. I’m still hoping to find that desire lying around somewhere or the passion lying around somewhere.

Keller: If "10" is you’ve got all of your desire back and "0" is where you were when your WWE career ended, where are you now on that scale of a desire to be a wrestler?

Hardy: Probably I would say a six. Something like that.

Keller: You’re over the hump, but it’s not burning inside of you right now?

Hardy: Right, right. I have a feeling the Bound for Glory deal, if it’s the right match - me and Jeff or whatever the match will end up being - I think that’s going to be a good time for it to actually happen as far as everything going good. That’s the best time to do it.

Keller: When you were in WWE, did you spend most of the time in the "8, 9, 10" range until maybe the last year or so, or were there ups and downs even early on?

Hardy: The majority of the time was 8, 9, and then when we split - way back when I won the Intercontinental Title and all that stuff, that was one of the coolest things. We went for a tag team to us doing our individual thing. I think more than anything that whole split and the brands split and I stayed on Raw and Matt went to Smackdown, that’s really when it kicked in. That’s when I started going backwards in numbers. If we had remained a tag team, everything may have - I don’t know what would have happened exactly. I still probably would have lost my passion and all that stuff. Right now more than anything, this is a great example, when Matt called to let me know he got released, I was so excited, man. I didn’t want to say it, I didn’t know how to come across, because I know he was bummed out about it. But God, I was happy inside. I was thinking this was going to be great, the Hardy Boyz are going to turn it out and be that final ingredient to put TNA on the same level. Then that didn’t work out. I totally miss the tag team deal.

Keller: Do you think Matt would have wanted to be in a tag team with you in TNA? He had pretty much said outright he would have teamed with you a couple of times, but he wanted to be known as an individual act. You’re saying your preference if he didn’t care either way would have been to reform the team and be a tag team full time?

Hardy: Oh yeah. Matt’s just afraid that if anything was going to relocate that passion of mine, it would have been to get in the ring as the Hardy Boyz again. I don’t know, it seems being that he’s an individual and has been on his own and has been doing great... Him being afraid to team again because it would boost my confidence again and not wanting to hear that "Jeff this, Jeff that" anymore and people saying, "Yeah, he’s the one I remember the most. He was the flashy one." This and that. He might have been a little creeped out about actually relocating my passion through the Hardy Boy reunion.

Keller: You think he was scared that you would regain enthusiasm for wrestling because of the tag team?

Hardy: Yes. However you want to look at the Hardy Boys’ career as a tag team, it would have taken away from him. More of the spotlight would have been off of him a little more as to where he’s on his own doing great. He’s proved himself. He doesn’t need me. I always knew that. That could be totally way off. I do know I wanted to get back together with him a lot more than he did.

Keller: Did that hurt your feelings when you realized that his desire to team with you again wasn’t at the same level as yours?

Hardy: In a way, but I kind of knew it, too, because when it comes to wrestling, that’s his life and we’re not on the same level as far as our outlooks on that. It did. It kind of disappointed me a lot that there was a lot of hope he was going to be in TNA, but then that (didn’t happen). Once I heard he had been in contract with WWE, I thought, yeah, he’s going to be back in WWE. Just because it’s worldwide and so huge. It’s the place to be. He didn’t have much faith in TNA.

Keller: You had said somewhat recently that you think Matt Hardy strung TNA along and his heart was never into going there and they were always Plan B, the back-up plan. Do you think your comments were misconstrued? Did Matt talk to you about them? How do you feel about them now?

Hardy: Matt came across to me like he was totally wanting to go, but he was stressed out and torn between these two deals. I was like, "Man, if you really love wrestling you say you love wrestling, you could write, you could be one of the top guys in TNA, you would have it made." I think, especially the way he got released, that was probably my biggest deal. I was, "I can’t believe you’re going to go back to a place that released you like they did. That was so f---ed up. Now you’re kind of just giving in to the man or to the machine again. I’m like, God, if he had any pride, it seems like he wouldn’t have done that or even thought about it. It’s just kind of weak to me for him to go back after the way he went out.

Keller: What about your comments that he always wanted to go back there? Didn’t you go so far as to say you think he did a disservice to TNA management by even making them think he would sign with them? Did he lead them on? Do you think he would have never signed with TNA once WWE showed interest?

Hardy: I do think he did (lead them on). I didn’t hear the conversations he had with TNA, whoever he talked to in TNA. The moment he heard that WWE was interested in him again, I totally think his mind was set on WWE. I don’t know if he did it intentionally as far as leading them on, but I think he did.

Keller: Do you think he owes anybody in TNA an apology as far as using them as a bargaining chip to get a better deal with WWE?

Hardy: That’s what’s hard to say because even this past week, Dixie told me to tell him hi. I don’t know what was said in the conversation. It’s hard for me to say and know for sure. But I don’t think he owes anybody an apology. There is business and personal sides to anybody, I guess that was his business side.

Keller: It sounds as if Dixie is not upset with how Matt handled it.

Hardy: No, not at all. And she talked to him a few times and said, "Oh, he was such a nice guy." I could be totally wrong in thinking he led them on. I’m just speaking how I feel.

Keller: My impression was that he really did consider TNA. It was a really tough decision on his part because of all the things you mention - that creative freedom, stick it to the machine, don’t go back to the same place that screwed you over, be with your brother, be part of something on the upswing and make a difference to the industry. I wrote about that. I thought he had a lot more to offer from a legacy standpoint if he went to TNA because by going back to WWE, he becomes "just another wrestler." So with all of that said, do you think he absolutely made the wrong decision for him knowing what you know as his brother?

Hardy: You know, I can’t really say for sure. I don’t know weeks from now where he’ll be, but the way it looks up until now, when I first saw Summerslam, I was way disappointed. This is kind of thinking about the deep down part of Matt in that it’s kind of hard to admit he’s wrong and show his true feelings. It’s hard for him to cry in a public place. Whatever that toughness is that keeps some of his deep down thoughts inside. I know when it comes to money, one of the main reasons he didn’t come to TNA was they didn’t have a for sure Spike deal or a TV deal all around. And that’s understandable. I mean, then again, that’s one thing that’s kind of cool to go out on a limb for, especially if you love wrestling like he loves wrestling. Honestly, I do think he would have made a better decision if he would have come to TNA as far as being that final ingredient. But being that there wasn’t that concrete channel, he just went back to World Wrestling Entertainment. I can’t say it was a bad move. I would get beat and never complain. He could get beat for the next ten years and make great money, which would be great either way.

Keller: If you think Matt could redo it, do you think he would change his decision based on the way things have gone so far, or do you think he’s totally happy with the choice he made?

Hardy: All the times I’ve talked to him, he seemed really stressed out somewhat to where, how could you not expect stress going back to work with who you’re working with and all this and that and whatever takes place throughout the day of Raw and however much communication you have with him. I just don’t know how he can even be around that tension, especially work with it. A part of him - the biggest part of him, that deep down part, actually - wishes he may have made that choice to come to TNA. But then again, he’s still holding onto that hope for the fans who cheer him so loud that he will make a difference. I told him the other day, he’s in the best shape of his life. He looks great. I truly believe that. My biggest deal is I think he needs to bring a little something different to the table. The pretape he did with (Eric) Bischoff was the same old Matt I’ve seen years ago. I was like, man, I don’t know what it is, but bring a little something different.

Keller: Do you think it’s fair that management in WWE gave him that one live promo in the ring where Vince McMahon introduced him, and that took away some of the anti-authority feeling fans had for Matt because the boss is endorsing you, and they gave him just that one shot? Most people agree it wasn’t the interview people thought Matt could deliver based on all of that pent up anger and everything for the past few months. Do you think that was Matt’s one big chance and that that actually did deter his push a little bit?

Hardy: I think it possibly could have. The whole deal he did leading up to that where he was breaking into the building and leaping over the rail the first night he was back, looking at it from a realistic standpoint if a fan actually jumped and tried to get into the ring, what are the chances of that fan being able to grab a mic and have that much time. When you look at it, there are so many things you could break down. I guess all in all, it’s a good show, but I almost think it’s an insult to the fans’ intelligence on a whole, kind of. It evidently isn’t because it’s not like they booed it or anything. But it’s just crazy that they think these people are going to believe he’s actually sneaking into the buildings here and actually making his way to the ring and getting this done and actually get the mic to say a little something. But after the promo, man, I didn’t know what to think, especially after he said he hoped Edge would die in a car wreck. I thought, whoa, that’s pretty strong. The next week when I saw Edge’s interview, I thought back to Matt’s interview, and I thought, man, wow, he’s got to feel a little crazy for some of the things he said because Edge just totally made sense out of all of it as far as making it sound a lot better. I couldn’t help but feel Matt wished he could have gone back and said something different.

Keller: Do you think Matt got nervous out there, or do you think he just hasn’t had enough time to do promos and it just was the best he could do that day? Or did nervousness really cut down the quality of what he could have done under other circumstances?

Hardy: The handshake - I think that was probably one thing he didn’t want to do. I think that’s one thing he was really hating. I know that handshake probably hit him a little hard. After all of this time of us versus them and the big "them" movement and how he’s going to take WWE out and make Lita and Edge’s lives miserable, but then having to shake Vince’s hand. I guess it’s awesome to be introduced by Vince, but after all that, he looked back at this guy and you think, after all the sh-- he’s been saying all this time, it’s just bullsh--.

Keller: In a sense, by Vince shaking his hand, it told the fans, "Everything Matt Hardy said about me and my company didn’t make a difference in the world." It basically erased any sense that Matt was a true anti-authority. I wouldn’t be surprised if that didn’t shake up Matt a little bit in terms of the quality promo he could deliver after that moment.

Hardy: I totally think so, too. I remember telling Matt after the show, I told him on the phone, "I liked that line in there, that was pretty damn controversial or crazy. Pretty strong." At that point I hadn’t thought that the way to go about it as far as what Edge covered the next week, saying, "I hope you’re in the best shape of your life." Because it totally came across as (Matt) being scared (of Edge).

Keller: Is there any doubt in your mind that everything the way Matt portrayed it, even though it’s his side of it, is a truthful way that things happened? Or is there any chance somewhere along the line that Matt and to some extend Amy (Lita) and Adam (Edge) began working people, so it started as real life and became a work, or even started off as a work from the beginning? Is there any doubt in your mind what this is all about?

Hardy: The biggest doubt is probably the fact that I only took the time to hear Matt’s side because he’s blood and he’s my brother. Knowing Amy so good, the day he came up here and informed me of all that had gone down, I remember calling Edge on his voicemail and saying, "Man, you f---in’" - because Matt played those messages for me. He came over to the house and I was out there painting a big ass gimmick I’ve got near the road out there. Anyway, he comes on and plays these messages and I hear Adam talking to Amy, going, "I love you. I love you." Over and over again. Whatever else, it was just sickening. I was like, oh my gosh. So Matt pretty much stood right there in front of me and had me call them. I remember him saying something like, "Call them and let them know how disappointed you are." That was for Amy. So then I called Adam. I said, "I f---in’ hate you." Blah blah blah and this and that. Then I called Amy and she actually picked up. She was just getting back to her mom’s house. It didn’t sound like she was crying or anything. I talked to her casually, "Hey, what’s going on." It’s so hard for me to talk to her because I was so close to her; I wasn’t nowhere near as close to Adam. Amy had already moved in with Matt and was living there; I thought it was something that would be forever. That was really hard. I thought it was so f---ed up. Right there, when Matt was there, it’s hard not to take your brother’s side, but now I look back on it and think I need to call and say I’m sorry because so much has happened in whatever that 90 day period was when he was into "the movement begins." And the movement is actually he is back in WWE. It’s hard not to question that and wonder what’s going on here. I just wish I would have taken the time way before now to apologize for that day and calling and being so bold just because Matt was there. I never took the time to hear the other side. All the information I have is just through Matt, and it’s a little shaky.

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