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VIP EXCLUSIVE - FROM PWTORCH NEWSLETTER #997/998

Torch Talk with Shawn Daivari, pt. 3
Originally Published: November 13, 2007
Torch Newsletter #997/998

The following is part three of the 90 minute “Torch Talk” with Shawn Daivari. This segment includes a continuation of the discussion on his recent experience with the WWE Wellness Policy and plus whether time off would be helpful to the longevity and the mental and physical wellness of WWE wrestlers over the course of their careers, the concussion findings with Chris Benoit, and more. The interview was conducted Oct. 16.

Wade Keller: If the circumstances in the industry have changed for the better, as you contend, I wonder if there are new issues that have replaced them that are also bad? Certainly a case can be made that steroids have been an issue off and on for the past 20 years. And now you have the prescription pill issue, which has replaced - in some ways - getting drunk every night to numb the pain. Will that catch up to people? And then, my concern is that the people who are saying things that are different sound like the people who are now dead did when they were 23 or 29. But, 10 or 15 days on the road per month, even if you have more days off per month, and feeling like someone in their late 30's where the bumps hurt more and longer, then it's a cumulative effect if then the need for pain pills kick in, as does the desire to stay on the road and earn money during your peak years before your body starts failing you, and that's where the problems come in. I'm tired of writing obituaries - to be selfish. So, I'm thinking, is truly enough being done? Is there anything else that can be done that's not already being done right now that might prevent someone like you, who has 15 more years of mileage in him, from being at risk?

Shawn Daivari: Like I said, there's nothing outside of a person's will that you can do anything about. If someone does choose to do certain things that will shorten their lives, then that's their prerogative. That's not anything that comes with the business I guess that some people try to blame it on. Like, "Oh, you're gone 300 days a year and you're bumping every night. You have to do this or you have to do that to work." I know of a lot of guys who are working drug-free and they're on their tenth or fifteenth year. They're still going fine. I'm sure they hurt and they ache a lot; I'm sure taking pain pills might make their pains hurt a little less, but they choose not. There's nothing short of your own will that will stop you from doing something like that. If they want to use it, they will find a reason to use it. If they don't want to, then they won't. There's nothing more the business can do. I can't speak for everywhere because I haven't worked everywhere, but I know that in our company, at WWE, I was always told from the time I sounded my contract - they told me, "If you're hurt, let us know. If you need time off, let us know." I never took them up on their offer because I was never hurt to where I thought I needed the time off, but I always knew that option was available to me. I just never took it. I've seen several people that have.

I remember Muhammad (Hassan) was one of them. We were getting ready for the biggest run of our career right out of OVW. They had so many people telling us they had huge plans for us, and he actually broke his tailbone in OVW. They gave him all the time off in the world he needed, and when he came back, we picked up right where we left off. There was never anything like, "Oh sorry, you took too long, we're going to do this gimmick with this guy instead." He just sat down and waited and I think it took him three or four weeks until he was cleared, then we were off to the races. We picked off right where we left off. I guess that was my only first-hand experience with it, with him. Like I said, in WWE, there are plenty of ways you can stay healthy if you want to. And there's enough support if you're willing to ask for it. If you're not willing to ask for it, and if you want to self-medicate, then that's your own deal. The company is there to help you if you need it.

Keller: If you're one of the wrestlers who is utilized 50 weekends out of the year, and there are some guys who are in that range, who aren't given that time off because they're in the top half of the card, and they drive them hard. Now, they have more days off in between those weekends than they used to, but do you think that for that schedule for someone who is in the middle of, or trying to attain a top run, and their body is hurting, that it would help for WWE to instead of putting the onus on the wrestler wrapped up in the fame and the career finally reaching its peak, but at that same exact moment, their body starts breaking down or there's a nagging injury, and they're tempted to take pain pills to stay on the road, would it be good for WWE to say, "Let's have twice a year a mini-off-season." Or, rotate where there's a few guys at any given time taking six weeks off twice per year so that everyone is mandated, it's treated equally so you don't have to step up and volunteer with that fear that it's going to be used against you that you can't "tough it out," but have everyone get that chance to take that deep breath, a chance to let their bodies rest, a chance for their mind to take a break, and not feel like someone else is lapping them at that exact moment?

Daivari: Yeah, yeah, that potentially could work. That's one of those things that in the industry that hasn't been done yet, and there's no way of knowing if that would work until you try it. I couldn't comment on it because I don't know, but that might be the next step. There was a time when guys needed to be home at least five days a month. The next step of that was Vince [McMahon] making sure guys got to go home every single week. And maybe that is the next step. Who knows, but it's one of those things that we don't know until we try it, but even if you try it, it still takes a few years to figure out if it works or not. You'll only know from trial and error.

Keller: My concern is putting the onus on a wrestler to volunteer to take time off when he needs it. WWE isn't a team sport in the traditional sense, but there is a sense that if a top guy is having a hot run and he decides he needs to take time off, people tend to get wrapped up in the moment. A guy who's 30 or 35 years old and been on the road for 15 years and finally he gets his break, to ask him to volunteer to take time off instead of a taking pain pill to get through a hot run I think is asking a lot of a talent. That's my opinion, but I think that's up to management to step up and say, "We're going to look out for you guys and not put the onus on you."

Daivari: That could be a possibility, but I can't speak for management or that talent. I can speak for myself that if you are in a top run or that high on the card it makes it that much easier. For myself, for example, if I can walk and if I can talk, I can get through a match. You're able to get by. I don't think unless I absolutely needed it, I wouldn't request time off. That's not even a health issue, that's just me. It's easier when you're older and you're on top of the card. I've seen John Cena sometimes and, before he's done anything, they cheer him, they boo him, they chant "We love Cena," "We hate Cena." That's what they [fans] buy. They buy a ticket to be entertained. And there is a way to get the fans to go through the whole array of emotion every night. Like I said, I feel confident enough in my ability to do that with as little TV push as I had behind me. If you're that high on the card, you should be able to get by with even less. Like I said, if you are able to walk and if you are able to do your shtick, you should be able to get through a night. And if you can't do it, then it is fair to ask for your time off. I highly doubt that anyone is going to hold it against you. I shouldn't say anyone is dumb enough, but if you are really, really hurting, I don't see many much longer the days of people saying, "Tough it out, quit being a pussy and collect your check." I really don't see that happening. I do know of several guys who have requested time off. People [viewers at home] don't see us every single day. They only see us on TV. If you see someone on Monday Night Raw or Friday Night Smackdown or ECW, that might be the only show they do all week. I know of guys who get weekends off or even tours off. Sometimes we'll go overseas for 12 days at a time and we'll look at each other like, "Hey, where's so and so? I guess they requested time off or this tour off." They might still make it to both TV shows. To our audience, it looks like they never missed a beat, but they still got time off. It does happen a lot.

Keller: How about concussions? I think that's the last revelation on the Benoit saga - his brain being examined and concussions being an issue. That's a big issue in all of sports - pro football and high school football, especially. Have you had concussions diagnosed or undiagnosed?

Daivari: I've had a few diagnosed, but the thing about a concussion - and I've had a CAT scan and they told me I had a concussion, but it really hasn't been taken any further than that. These aren't even WWE doctors. This happened in my independent career before I even got to WWE. Usually the doctor is like, "Okay, well, whenever you feel better, come see me. Okay, you're good to go. Do you get headaches when you turn really fast? Do you see white spots? No. Okay, you're cleared." There's no real extensive way to see that the concussion is really gone or this is exactly what happened or this is the exact part of the brain where it occurred. For that, it's really hard to diagnose specifically other than "yeah, you probably have one" or "no, you probably don't." It does happen a lot. A lot of times, guys get their brains rattled and they don't even know it. I'm pretty good friends with Chris Nowinski and he's a genius on the topic. He's well-studied on the topic and every time I talk to him about it, he explains something new to me or something they just found out in a new study coming out. Outside of the realm of pro wrestling in some real world environments, it's still like a baby science. It's still being learned as time goes on. As time goes on, they're learning more and more about it. As it relates to professional wrestling, I think they are doing everything possible. Unfortunately, there is no extensive way to monitor it yet that we can make it borderline foolproof. I would say our diagnostics - most of the stuff we do is in line with the NFL and any other sport. A lot of times, when guys get surgery or see any time of specialist, usually it's someone that NFL athletes or NHL hockey players see as well. We have our own in-house doctor, but he doesn't do everything. He usually says, "This is what's wrong you, and I'll go find you a specialist." And you'll go see a professional sports specialist. I would say there is more that can be done, but that's on the whole realm of it; that's in all of contact sports. It wouldn't be fair to say that NHL guys or NFL guys take such good care of their talent, why don't they take care of you guys like that? I say everything that we do is on par, but as a whole, it's still baby steps as to what they can learn and the ways they can study and monitor it in the future.

Keller: How many occasions that you know of was a wrestler scheduled for a big match, but because he was diagnosed with a concussion and sent to specialist, he was held off from wrestling match?

Daivari: Oh, nothing I can specifically recall. It might have happened. A lot of the stuff is pretty private between talent and management, unless it's something that's completely obvious where a guy blows out his knee in the middle of a match and comes limping into the back and they go "so and so's got a knee problem." There's been a lot of times where people have disappeared and you don't even know why. They show up weeks later and you ask where they've been and they say they had their elbow cleaned out. It's not usually that public unless it's a hugely advertised thing, like so-and-so has a match this Sunday on pay-per-view and all of a sudden the match is changed......

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