{"id":33423,"date":"2016-10-12T13:56:08","date_gmt":"2016-10-12T18:56:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/?p=33423"},"modified":"2016-10-12T13:56:08","modified_gmt":"2016-10-12T18:56:08","slug":"20-yrs-ago-insight-clique-vince-mcmahon-remarkable-shane-douglas-torch-talk-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/2016\/10\/12\/20-yrs-ago-insight-clique-vince-mcmahon-remarkable-shane-douglas-torch-talk-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"20 YRS AGO: Insight into The Clique and Vince McMahon in remarkable Shane Douglas &#8220;Torch Talk&#8221; interview"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"pwtor-884384204\" class=\"pwtor-before-content pwtor-entity-placement\"><hr \/><b>SPOTLIGHTED PODCAST ALERT (YOUR ARTICLE BEGINS A FEW INCHES DOWN)... <\/b>\r\n\r\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/widget.spreaker.com\/player?show_id=3076978&theme=light&playlist=false&playlist-continuous=false&autoplay=false&live-autoplay=false&chapters-image=true&episode_image_position=right&hide-logo=false&hide-likes=false&hide-comments=false&hide-sharing=false&hide-download=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"140px\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe>\r\n<hr \/><\/div><p>Twenty years ago this week, the PWTorch Newsletter #411 featured part three of a remarkable &#8220;Torch Talk&#8221; with Shane Douglas, who spoke in great detail about the dynamic with The Clique and Vince McMahon behind the scenes in the WWF during his stint there. Check out this extended excerpt of that interview, and then read the entire interview by <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/pwtorch-vip-membership-information\/\">going VIP<\/a>. VIP members can jump right to the text of the entire newsletter of a PDF of the entire newsletter <a href=\"http:\/\/vip.pwtorch.com\/2016\/10\/08\/vip-1996-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-411-oct-19-1996-bret-hart-decides-to-return-to-wwf-hogans-lawsuit-russo-comments-on-rosss-bells-palsy-more\/\">HERE<\/a>.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h2>Torch Talk with Shane Douglas, pt. 3<\/h2>\n<p><strong>HEADLINE: Shane Douglas says Vince McMahon was insulated from the truth<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>The following is part three of a multi-part \u201cTorch Talk\u201d interview with Shane Douglas (\u201cDean Douglas,\u201d real name Troy Martin) conducted Sept. 8. In this segment, he talks about the influence of the controversial \u201cClique\u201d of top wrestlers (Shawn Michaels, Diesel, Razor Ramon, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, 1-2-3 Kid) in the WWF last year during his stay there.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Wade Keller: You said that road agents and front office assistants to Vince are all yes-men, afraid to be independent thinkers. Did you sense that bothered any of them but they begrudgingly went along with it? Or did they all seem to think that was their lot in life?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Shane Douglas: Well, there was an incident on the tour bus where The Clique were bitching about there being no Corona beer. There were three great big tubs of you-name-it German beer for free \u2013 drink as much as you want, drink \u2019til you puke, drink \u2019til you pass out. But there was no Corona. They started complaining. We had about a three hour trip that night to the next town. They complained the whole time. I sat next to Owen Hart. We talked for a while. I finally had to put my headset on for my CD player because I couldn\u2019t take it anymore. It was like little kids. \u201cYou call Vince and tell him if there\u2019s no f\u2014in\u2019 Corona on this bus tomorrow the f\u2014in\u2019 Clique isn\u2019t f\u2014in\u2019 workin\u2019. We\u2019re sitting down. That mother f\u2014- is in a mansion tonight with his family and we\u2019re thousands of mile away making that mother f\u2014- money.\u201d This is how they\u2019re talking and I\u2019m thinking, geez, these are the kind of guys if I were Vince, I would fire. Or who I would starve.<\/p>\n<p>I went to Tony Garea and I said, \u201cTony, why do you tolerate that kind of conduct? You\u2019re an agent?\u201d I know what will happen. Tonight he\u2019ll get to the hotel and he\u2019ll call Vince and he\u2019ll give him a report on the show and he\u2019ll put The Clique over because he knows The Clique is over with Vince. And he\u2019ll bury everybody else. If there was a bad match, it won\u2019t be a Clique member\u2019s fault, it will be the other person\u2019s fault. I asked him why he tolerates that and why he doesn\u2019t report it to Vince. And he said, \u201cOh, I do, I do.\u201d I could tell he didn\u2019t. I just think there were a whole lot of people there who wish he would have. He seemed madder than hell. When we got off the bus that night, he seemed very angry. But they would never follow up on it.<\/p>\n<p>When you stepped back and looked at this, you could see how really bungled up this whole thing is. I mean, it\u2019s such a big mess, a bungled up mess of people afraid to say this and people afraid to do that. So you have to ask yourself how much Vince really knows about what The Clique were like on the road. I have to think Vince knows a lot because Vince is a very hands on person in the way he runs the company. Look at the incident where he flew out to Indianapolis where the Clique had the sit-down strike. He spent three days with them on the road. Given things like that, he had to know how they were handling themselves on the road and treating other people on the road and how that was affecting morale. He refused to deal with it.<\/p>\n<p>One person came up to me as I was leaving Madison Square Garden the night we had the big schmooz about my back and the doctor wouldn\u2019t let me work. One of the guys came up to me and nudged me. He looked up and down the hall to make sure nobody was around and he said, \u201cYou\u2019re doing the right thing, kid. Take care of you back. I nudged him and said, \u201cThanks a lot, that means a lot to me.\u201d He said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to be careful what I say because I don\u2019t want to lose my job and I don\u2019t want heat. I told him I understood he was doing his job and that I appreciated his words. And I walked out of the building. That was someone who had been with Vince for years and years.<\/p><div id=\"pwtor-287960951\" class=\"pwtor-content pwtor-entity-placement\"><div align=\"center\" data-freestar-ad=\"__336x280 __336x280\" id=\"pwtorchcom_test_300x250\">\r\n  <script data-cfasync=\"false\" type=\"text\/javascript\">\r\n    freestar.config.enabled_slots.push({ placementName: \"pwtorchcom_test_300x250\", slotId: \"pwtorchcom_test_300x250\" });\r\n  <\/script>\r\n<\/div><\/div>\n<p>A lot of these people have been in the business for 50 years and they understand what\u2019s right and wrong to do. I think they sense \u2013 it\u2019s like the people who gave Elvis Presley the drugs. I\u2019m thinking to myself if I was a bodyguard for Elvis Presley, I\u2019d make sure I got his ass into detox because I want him to be around for the next 30 years to make me a living. These people are saying, \u201cLet Vince do and say what he wants. What\u2019s right is right as long as it\u2019s going and let\u2019s collect our paychecks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keller: How bad did things get during that three day period when Vince went on the road for the first time perhaps ever?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Douglas: I was home at the time. I think it was when I had the fractured larynx. I was home at the time and my phone started ringing off the hook. Davey Boy and Dustin and Aldo Montoya and six or seven people in total called me from the road. They were saying, \u201cYou won\u2019t believe what\u2019s going on.\u201d They told me and I thought it was a rib. I kept waiting for somebody to call me and tell me it was a rib. When I heard that it was and then I saw it reported in the TORCH, I was dumbfounded. I can tell you the morale from the people I was associated with was really, really\u2026 well, it was a big heat. I think that incident more than anything else really set the Clique up as being both a powerful organization or a powerful group of guys because everybody looked at them and said, \u201cGeez, if they have the authority to get Vince on the road by threatening to strike, those guys have authority and if I say something about them, I\u2019m gone. So at that point a lot of people sat back and said, \u201cGeez, watch what you say about these five guys.\u201d I think Vince alienated a lot of people like Davey Boy and Dustin because they would call me and say, \u201cI\u2019d never think of striking, and if we did strike Vince would fire us.\u201d That was the consensus from people in the business, but the Clique felt differently. They felt they were so special and so important to the company that Vince would do that. And they think, \u201cIf we\u2019re making 300 thousand a year and you\u2019re only making twenty-some thousand in six or seven months, well that\u2019s too bad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keller: What were the main issues the Clique wanted addressed?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Douglas: I think they felt they should control the belts, that nobody else was worthy of having those belts, character-assassination, and I think they did it in a very strong, very sly and cunning working way. Somebody dropped a hint to Vince, \u201cBoy, this guy may not be able to work.\u201d Somebody else would then say, \u201cGee, I just worked a match with this guy and f\u2014.\u201d Somebody else would say, \u201cVince I was watching this match and someone said it didn\u2019t look very good.\u201d I think it was that systematic, carefully thought out cunning type of work. Looking back I think they played Vince for a puppet, all of them did. I have to laugh where Vince said someone, maybe he told you, \u201cI know people are going to laugh when I say this, but there is such a thing as friendships in this business,\u201d and then two weeks later Razor and Diesel had both signed contracts to leave. I thought to myself, there is friendship Vince. That\u2019s what you got for pushing these guys and making them wealthy men and kissing their asses when they wanted to go on strike.<\/p>\n<p>If I\u2019m running a company and you tell me you\u2019re going to go on strike, I\u2019m going to call you up and say, \u201cGo ahead and go on strike, and by the way, you\u2019re gone.\u201d Bottom line, you\u2019re the employee, I\u2019m the boss. I think Vince missed the boat in asserting himself. I think it\u2019s a lot of what brought Don Shula down. The hallmark of Shula was always great discipline. I don\u2019t imagine Paul Orndorff, when he was the hottest heel Vince had, ever decided to call Vince and threaten to go on a sit-down strike. Or Hogan when he was at his peak, the biggest phenomenon this business has ever known, I don\u2019t think he ever called Vince and told him he better get on a plane and fly on down or he\u2019d threaten to not work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keller: I guess Jim Hellwig is the closest to that happening.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Douglas: Jim was a whole different story. As much as I like Jim, I think Jim really was inept at handling the pressure of the situation he was put in. The pressure hit him so hard and so fast, I don\u2019t think he was ready for it. He got over so big so quickly that I think it just swamped him and he felt overwhelmed. I remember just looking at his face when he walked into the building and he just looked like he was overwhelmed. And really nobody was trying to help him. The one night we were at the bar in some town drinking and Hogan got a call from Hellwig. He went down to his room and he was gone for 20 minutes. When he came back he was laughing. Savage was in the bar along with the rest of us and Hogan said, \u201cJim\u2019s down there tearing his hotel room apart because he can\u2019t take the pressure.\u201d They thought it was funny. Instead of pulling him aside and saying, \u201cCalm down, relax\u201d \u2013 because this is where Hogan could have played mentor \u2013 it goes down to what I\u2019ve said several times about these old-timers, it\u2019s time for you to step aside and hand that torch over and teach that next generation how to handle that torch. That would have been an opportune time for him to sit down with him and say, \u201cGee, Jim, I know it\u2019s a lot of pressure, but you have to handle it.\u201d Maybe he said those types of things, but it seemed to me when he came back to the bar that night he seemed to be making more of a joke about it to everybody in the room including some marks about how Jim couldn\u2019t handle it. He had broken a TV and all that. He thought it was funny.<\/p><div id=\"pwtor-2217518871\" class=\"pwtor-content-1 pwtor-entity-placement\"><!-- Tag ID: pwtorchcom_test_300x600 -->\r\n<div align=\"center\" data-freestar-ad=\"__336x280 __300x600\" id=\"pwtorchcom_test_300x600\">\r\n  <script data-cfasync=\"false\" type=\"text\/javascript\">\r\n    freestar.config.enabled_slots.push({ placementName: \"pwtorchcom_test_300x600\", slotId: \"pwtorchcom_test_300x600\" });\r\n  <\/script>\r\n<\/div><\/div>\n<p>Getting back to the Clique, they felt they had that kind of authority, and I guess in a way they did because they certainly played Vince for it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Keller: Which came first \u2013 the Clique being against you or you showing frustration with the way your push was going?&#8230;.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>CONTINUE READING THIS INTERVIEW, AND ACCESS PREVIOUS INSTALLMENTS, BY<\/strong> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/pwtorch-vip-membership-information\/\">GOING VIP<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div class=\"pwtor-end-article-groups pwtor-entity-placement\" id=\"pwtor-1987923172\"><div id=\"pwtor-3518327028\"><div align=\"center\" data-freestar-ad=\"__336x280\" id=\"pwtorchcom_medrec_3\">\r\n  <script data-cfasync=\"false\" type=\"text\/javascript\">\r\n    freestar.config.enabled_slots.push({ placementName: \"pwtorchcom_medrec_3\", slotId: \"pwtorchcom_medrec_3\" });\r\n  <\/script>\r\n<\/div>\r\n\r\nTHANK YOU FOR VISITING<\/div><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<div class=\"mh-excerpt\"><p>Twenty years ago this week, the PWTorch Newsletter #411 featured part three of a remarkable &#8220;Torch Talk&#8221; with Shane Douglas, who spoke in great detail about the dynamic with The Clique and Vince McMahon behind <a class=\"mh-excerpt-more\" href=\"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/2016\/10\/12\/20-yrs-ago-insight-clique-vince-mcmahon-remarkable-shane-douglas-torch-talk-interview\/\" title=\"20 YRS AGO: Insight into The Clique and Vince McMahon in remarkable Shane Douglas &#8220;Torch Talk&#8221; interview\">[&#8230;]<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":33424,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"episode_type":"","audio_file":"","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"","filesize":"","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":"","itunes_episode_number":"","itunes_title":"","itunes_season_number":"","itunes_episode_type":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[46,30,31],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-33423","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spotlightarticles","category-specialfeatures","category-exclusives_flashbacks"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-content\/uploads\/post\/2016\/10\/DouglasTalk3.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33423","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=33423"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33423\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":33425,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33423\/revisions\/33425"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/33424"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=33423"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=33423"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.pwtorch.com\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=33423"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}