PWTORCH.COM
VIP SIGN-UP JUMP TO VIP
CONTACT US VISIT MMA TORCH




Select Next Article by Category





TAKE PWTORCH
WITH YOU!

PWTORCH IPHONE APP
Get our iPhone App (FREE!): Click Here
Or enter "PWTorch.com" on your Blackberry or other Smart Phone browser for mobile-version of PWTorch.


The Specialists
LOGIC CHECK - IMPACT: Keeping tabs on what made sense, what tested suspension of disbelief, and what was just ridiculous
Aug 15, 2008 - 4:25:52 PM


By Alex Dunn, PWTorch Specialist

Greetings Torch patrons and welcome once again to the Logic Check, your one stop shop for all things rational. Today I've got my sights set on TNA's latest contribution to professional wrestling history; so pull up some natio furniture, kick back and let's take a trip to the Impact Zone...

Michael Phelps is unimpressed...

Last night's Gold Medal Challenge was a smooth transition to the next stage of the Angle-A.J. fued after their Last Man Standing match. Kurt would want to humiliate his hated rival by challenging him to a match that Angle truly believed A.J. couldn't win and there is only one thing that Kurt Angle, at in his own mind anyway, does better than anyone else. So the ropes came down and we were treated to an amateur wrestling exhibition on our professional wrestling show. Angle was excellent with his attention to nuance. Cocky and playful as he went up 6-0 but when A.J. scored 4 quick points, his demeanor changed and he started to take A.J. more seriously. Angle then made it 8-4 and he went right back to being cocky which is consistent with his pompous, alpha male persona (Sorry, Monty). Styles's reaction to "winning" the gold medal was also a nice touch.

Thoughts:   At least the gold medal wasn't on a pole. I was never really a fan of the Gold Medal Challenge but I'm enjoying this feud so it served it's purpose as a segue to whatever they have planned next. Angle didn't really have to exert himself physically in this match, at least by his standards, so hopefully he can stay healthy and we can see this fued through to it's conclusion.

Ambiguity, thy name is Sting...
 
Another night come and gone with no explanation from TNA's resident man of mystery.  Apparently, Mr Voiceover knows Sting's motivation because he painted the picture of Sting seeking retribution during the video package on this whole situation. We also got to see exclusive footage from Hard Justice where Kevin Nash tried to get some answers from the Stinger. Being dark and mysterious, obviously Sting wasn't going to come out and say it, so he danced around it with vague statements about biological clocks and patience. 
 
Thoughts:    I believe this angle is leading up to Sting revealing that what he is trying to do is save the souls of TNA's babyfaces by stopping them from commiting acts of "evil." If that's the case, why wouldn't he just come out and say it? Why did he choose A.J. instead of his previous target, Joe, you know, the one "he's" been tormenting for the last 4 weeks? I think this entire angle is stupid and a waste of Sting's talents.
  
Three's Company:

It was revealed, on Karen's Angle, that the Beautiful People have hired Rockabilly to be their personal stylist. Yes, you read that right. Angelina Love and Velvet Sky will now be getting their fashion/style advice from a man who wrestles in the pink elastic equivalent of Daisy Dukes.

Thoughts:   The Beautiful People are one of my favorite acts in TNA right now because they are both so ridiculously believable in their roles. The best heels are the ones who remind us of someone that we can't stand and both ladies are the embodiment of the spoiled, conceited rich brats that everyone loves to hate. It's unfortunate that creative decided to saddle them with the charisma vortex that is Kip James because they don't need him. For the life of me, I will never understand why TNA, who knows their target demographic, would waste valuable camera time zooming in on the ass of a guy in pink shorts. At least it wasn't "Bad" Pun Johnson.

So, does that make Homicide his Jimmy Olsen?

"SuperMex" Hernandez made his presence felt last night in the Zona de Impact as he was really on top of his game. Whether it was his superb performance during LAX's promo or the way he rushed to the ring, ripping off his LAX gear, looking for a fight, Hernandez was believable to the point where I was almost fearing for Beer Money's health. At least until after Hernandez won, as he then lapsed into showman mode, playing to the camera and standing on the ropes, looking for cheers.

< b> Thoughts:   I think that the finish of Joe/Nash vs Team 3D would have been better suited for this match. Hernandez wins but he's so enraged about what Beer Money did to his brother Homicide that he just rains destruction down upon them until the match decision is reversed and security has to come down to pull him off. Hernandez also showed that he is a huge untapped resource as a singles star so that's something to look forward to once LAX has run it's course.

An Austin Watson by any other name...
 
Consequences Creed was the subject of TNA Rough Cut, last night, and the segment did a wonderful job of revealing a bit more about what drives the big haired, US Code breaking wrestler.* The high school footage and the comments from his long time friend Brandon really set up Creed as the classic underdog babyface who is defying the odds just by being on the roster. Also, it always good to hear from guys who only wanted to be wrestlers growing up.

Thoughts:   Creed is a promising rookie and he certainly has charisma to spare; however, I can't help but think that there are other wrestlers on the TNA roster, with more tenure, who are more deserving of a push.
 
Logistical Ruminations:
 
- I wonder if Matt Morgan and Abyss stand backstage and just roar at each other. 
 
- Can we please go somewhere with this Rock & Rave Infection gimmick? Week in and week out, it's the same schtick. It was amusing the first couple of weeks but now it's just boring. And that's pretty damn hard to say about Christy Hemme.
 
- Speaking of Christy Hemme, I'm sure she woke up with a sore crotch this morning. Not like that, you pervs.
 
- Matt Morgan is progressing fine as a character but he is just so bland in the ring. I do dig the Hellevator though.
 
- Call me crazy but I think a Middle Eastern Nightmare would be a US invasion.
 
- TNA should fire the referee from last night's main event. When the ref was bumped, Angle wasn't bleeding. After the ref got up, Angle was gushing from the head and there were pieces of wood all over the ring but the ref was unable to recognize what any sensible person would conclude to be suspicious.

- Jim Cornette should not be relegated to a brief promo that was joined mid-progress. The guy is one of the greatest talkers of all time and he is also one of the most credible people in the wrestling business. Show him some more respect.
 
- This Sonjay/Lethal feud needs to hurry up and end. Nobody is going to come out of it looking any stronger than they did before it started.
 
- Does this sound redundant to anyone else? "Hailing from American Samoa, he is the Samoan Submission Machine...Samoa Joe!!!!!"
 
- I saw my new my favorite wrestling sign last night. It was at Hard Justice and it read: "Joe Doesn't Fear of Anybody."
 
- It sure was nice for TNA to show us the finishes of most of the matches from Hard Justice. Now I don't have to order the replay.
 
- Looking at the graphic for the Bound for Glory main event, my pics for Joe's challengers are Booker T, Kurt Angle and A.J. Styles.
 
VERDICT: Another solid wrestling show from TNA that began the set-up for Bound for Glory. Everything moved along at it's usual frenetic pace but there wasn't anything too ridiculous or asinine.
 
Score: 6.0
 
(*US Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8 to be precise)
 
That's all for this edition of the Logic Check so join me on Saturday as I take my first look at Friday Night Smackdown. Also, I'm devising a new scoring system based on logic and believablity which I will unveil during the next RAW edition. 
 
Got a comment? A difference of opinion? Something you'd like to see in the column?  Drop me a line at adunn.torch@gmail.com.
 
ABOUT ME:
 
I'm a 20 year wrestling fan who resides in Dallas, TX and I know that's not Bigfoot.


Send feedback on this article to pwtorch@gmail.com and we'll regularly publish reader feedback in the "Torch Feedback" category on the Main Listing.

For more BREAKING NEWS on WWE, TNA!
VISIT OUR AFFILIATE - PROWRESTLING.NET


For UFC & MMA NEWS & BLOGS:
VISIT OUR SISTER SITE - MMATORCH.COM

Upgrade to PWTORCH VIP: DETAILS & SIGN-UP INFO


MORE "The Specialists" ARTICLES
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Greed Is Good For PPV Business (Just Not For You), Jericho vs. Undertaker, Punk vs. Scott Armstrong, Batista vs. My Boredom
GARDNER'S KEY MOMENT OF THE WEEK: WWE's Even-Steven booking isn't elevating younger stars, just benefiting Triple H
11/7 WWE Smackdown Hits & Misses: Mysterio vs. Knox, Punk vs. Truth, Batista vs. Hardy
PARKS BLOG: Chris Jericho should know better
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 11/5: TNA = The Office, What Vince Russo was thinking during Dixie Carter's speech, Desmond Wolfe and Duran Duran, Highlander spotting, Numbers - Titleholders since 1990
11/3 WWE ECW Hits & Misses: Goldust vs. Regal, Ryder's POV, Burchill - Hurricane
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Chris Jericho Should Drink Some Shut Up Juice, Zack Ryder Fantasizes About Mrs. Potato, Vance Archer - Who Wants to Get Infected Tonight?, I Love TNA!
11/2 WWE Raw Hits & Misses: Miz vs. Bourne, Raw's Got Talent, Kofi - Orton, Cena vs. Jericho vs Show
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - WWE Raw: Sheamus The Bad Barbarian, Chris Masters Finds His New Gimmick, The Beginning Of The End Will Happen When Triple H Retires
HITS & MISSES - TNA IMPACT 10/29: Hulk Hogan the good and bad, Styles Stalker Angle, TNA's handling of Chris Sabin's injury, Title Name change
10/30 WWE Smackdown Hits & Misses: Grisham & Striker, Mysterio - Batista, Kane vs. Jericho
GARDNER'S KEY MOMENT OF THE WEEK: Is Hulk Hogan a difference-maker for TNA or just another addition to the aging roster?
VALENTINO'S MAGIC, MEMORIES, AND MANIA: Top Five Best Hell in a Cell matches and why they worked - HBK vs. Taker, Batista vs. Triple H
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - WWE Smackdown: WWE Gives Into Matt Hardy's Demands to Showcase Acting Ability, Scott Armstrong's a Hulkamaniac, Rey and Big Dave Have a Moment
10/29 WWE Superstars Hits & Misses: Swagger vs. Primo, Cryme Tyme & Truth vs. Hart Dynasty & Knox
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - TNA Impact: Kurt Angle Is Fine, Ladies And Gentlemen...and we guess Chris Sabin too, plus more Humble Hero Hulk Hogan Hogwash!
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 10/29: TNA defends Chris Sabin injury, Prince Justice flashback, Qualifications for Legends Title shot?, Numbers - Hulk Hogan's age vs. TNA roster
PARKS BLOG: WWE is still relevant (to kids, at least)
10/27 WWE ECW Hits & Misses: Abraham Washington Show, Shaemus vs. Benjamin, Christian vs. Tatsu
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Hogan & ECW: Why Hogan Joined TNA, New Announcer Bryon Saxton Doesn't Want To Wake The Baby, Tatsu Is Annoyingly Adorable

(c) 1999-2009 TDH Communications Inc. - All rights reserved.

Current Top Ten Staff Picks
Staff Picks
TNA News: Ratings are in for Thursday's Impact - did TNA retain the audience from last week's Hulk Hogan Impact?
WWE News: Major update on 2010 PPVs - price change, PPV name change, WWE addresses PPV criticism (w/Detailed Analysis)
WWE News: WWE announces details on three-hour Raw featuring Slammy Award Show and special guest host Dennis Miller
WWE News: Report on WWE's conference call with investors - serious discussion of WWE TV, Vince McMahon: "This is not a Family Business"
WWE News: WWE announces third quarter 2009 earnings results - revenue up due to int'l, PPV business weak
WWE News: Raw TV ratings are in - how did the Osbournes fare as guest hosts?
WWE/TNA News: Hulk Hogan claims he taught Vince McMahon the wrestling business, talks more about his role in TNA
WWE Raw Results 11/2: KELLER'S rundown of all matches and segments, plus analysis, star ratings, quotebook
TNA News: Ratings are in for Hulk Hogan Impact - did the publicity help TNA?
WWE News: Hulk Hogan knocks WWE Hall of Fame ring and Vince McMahon in mainstream interview


TORCH QUICK-CLICK REFERENCE LIST
-CLICK TO FOLLOW PWTORCH ON TWITTER!
-CLICK FOR OUR FREE PWTORCH IPHONE APP

-CLICK FOR OUR FREE PODCAST (#1 in iTunes!)
-CLICK TO GET INFO ON BECOMING A VIP MEMBER
-CLICK TO VISIT MMATORCH.COM
-CLICK TO VISIT PROWRESTLING.NET

-CLICK TO EMAIL PWTORCH EDITORS




PWTORCH READER POLL

How will WWE's price raise to $44.95 per PPV event affect you?
I buy many PPVs a year and will continue to do so regardless
I buy a few PPVs a year and will selectively continue despite the price raise
I will cut back somewhat as it seems a little pricey
I will cut back drastically as this feels like gouging
Out of principle and protest, I will stop ordering any other than maybe WM
They had previously priced me out of the market, so this affirms my non-ordering habits
I will order any and all WWE PPVs because price isn't an issue for me
Price doesn't matter. I've been watching pirate feeds for a while
  

VOTE IN OR SEE RESULTS OF PREVIOUS POLLS

ARE YOU VIP? SIGN UP NOW FOR $7.50 A MONTH FOR INSTANT ACCESS TO AD-FREE, BENEFIT-PACKED VIP VERSION OF PWTORCH.COM (see screen capture)
PWTORCH VIP HOME PAGE

INFO ON SUBSCRIPTION TO AD-FREE VIP SITE

INCREDIBLE BENEFITS!
Over 50 full-length audio updates per month (iPod compatible)... New weekly award-winning Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter (text and printable pdf versions) with latest exclusive insider news, new Torch Talks, great columns, Keller's cover story, much more... Hundreds of full-length back issues of PWTorch Newsletter from late-'80s to today... Ad-free access to PWTorch.com's Main Listing... VIP Forum with interaction with other subscribers and Torch staff... Torch Talk Library with text and audio of hundreds of interview installments from last 20 years... Great layout... Deepest archives on pro wrestling history anywhere... Keller's PWTorch Today PDF Bulletins with email alerts... VIP Email reports on major PPVs and TV shows... Staff Roundtable Reviews (text and audio) followiing major events... The best staff of writers and world class reporting since 1987... We'd love for you to join us and experience the most entertaining, authoritative, experienced staff of professional reporters and commentators in the business...

SIGN ME UP NOW!

Compare the value of four or five months of PWTorch VIP content to the price of just one PPV. Can you cut 25 cents a day from your budget to make room for PWTorch VIP?

AND NEW FOR 2009!
Monthly "Vintage Audio Torch Talks." We are releasing for the first time ever audio versions of our text Torch Talk updates, the historical first series of insider interviews ever. Wade Keller's newsmaking in-depth interviews with wrestling's biggest names are now being made available exclusively to VIP members. But you must be a member each month, as these are not archived, so they are replaced with a new one each month! This debuted in January 2009 with a 68 minute interview with the late "British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith. Who's next? Hulk Hogan? Eric Bischoff? The Rock? Goldberg? Jeff Hardy?

SIGN ME UP NOW!


UPCOMING EVENTS LISTING

Articles Grouped by Category
Torch Today
TORCH MONTHLY AWARDS: List of the 2009 Torch Monthly Award winners through October
TORCH MONTHLY AWARD VOTING: Results for Best/Worst in pro wrestling for October
TORCH MONTHLY AWARD VOTING: Polls OPEN for best/worst in pro wrestling from the month of October (Part 2 of 2)
WWE News
WWE News: NBA player awarded WWE Title belt for Iron Man competition
Torch Talk Daily with ERIC BISCHOFF: Could Bret Hart have been better utilized in WCW after strong initial PPV business?
WWE News: "Target" of Chris Jericho's drunken slur turns the incident into a joke (w/VIDEO)
TNA News
TNA News: Ratings are in for Thursday's Impact - did TNA retain the audience from last week's Hulk Hogan Impact?
TNA News: Next week's TNA Impact - Sting reappearing to talk Hulk Hogan, A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe
TNA News: Watch TNA president Dixie Carter's "Love it or Leave It" speech to the roster from Impact (w/VIDEO)
ROH News
11/7 ROH in Edison, N.J. results (live reports wanted)
ROH News: Jim Cornette officially begins as ROH executive producer at today's ROH TV tapings (w/VIDEO)
ROH News: Ring of Honor receives positive press for ROH TV taping this weekend
Other News
DGUSA News: Untouchable PPV debuts for most Indemand customers this week
Hogan News: Can Hulk Hogan wrestle again? Hogan needs help walking during TV interview (w/VIDEO)
DGUSA News: Gabe Sapolsky predicts the wrestling industry will die without new TV wrestling stars
PPV Reports
RADICAN'S DGUSA "Untouchable" PPV review - Doi vs. Danielson, Shingo vs. Richards
10/25 WWE Bragging Rights Results: KELLER'S detailed match-by-match PPV report - Cena vs. Orton Iron Man match
CALDWELL'S WWE BRAGGING RIGHTS PPV REPORT 10/25: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of Cena vs. Orton, Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown
TV Reports
WWE SMACKDOWN ROUNDTABLE REVIEWS 11/6: Donofrio, Mezzera, Parks rate and review
WWE SUPERSTARS ROUNDTABLE REVIEWS 11/5: Caldwell, Donofrio, Parks rate and review
PARKS' WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 11/6: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of the show, including Batista vs. Hardy
Arena Reports
11/6 ROH on HDNet tapings results: Pick 6 contender series continues, Strong-Richards, Omega-Hero
11/5 ROH on HDNet tapings results: Pick 6 contender series announced, Aries defends title in four-way
11/6 WWE in Brussels: Undertaker vs. Punk casket match, Christian vs. William Regal, Cryme Tyme vs. Hart Dynasty, of course
MMA / UFC Coverage
Strikeforce News: Fedor vs. Rogers Fight Results - Exciting fight lives up to expectations live on CBS
FEDOR VS. BRETT ROGERS - Keller's detailed report, analysis, star ratings of CBS live MMA fight card (redirect)
FEDOR vs. BRETT ROGERS on CBS Saturday Night - Torch Team Coverage (redirect)
KELLER'S TAKE
KELLER BLOG: WrestleMania goes up to $55, all other PPVs $45 - let the pirate feed frenzy begin
KELLER BLOG: Dixie Carter asks wrestlers to step it up, but what does that mean? Shouldn't their goal to be winning matches and nothing else?
KELLER FLASHBACK: Review of Hulk Hogan's first autobiography - Hogan's political maneuvers evident in who he protects and buries
MITCHELL'S TAKE
MOJO MITCHELL'S RAW 11/2: Stream of My Fourth Grade Hero and The Mid-Card Kicks Main Event Ass
MITCHELL FLASHBACK #4: In 1993, after Hogan first left the WWF, he had a lot of career choices
MITCHELL FLASHBACK #3: Hogan's autobiography review - insight into his world
MCNEILL'S TAKE
McNEILL BLOG: The Big Questions About Hulk Hogan in TNA
Fight For Your Right to Bragging: McNEILL Previews WWE Bragging Rights!
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah! McNEILL Previews TNA Bound for Glory 2009
CALDWELL'S TAKE
CALDWELL'S BLOG: Vince McMahon is officially delusional, plus Vince's hidden message to Stephanie McMahon
CALDWELL'S TUESDAY CHAT w/GREG PARKS: Raw & Smackdown discussion - Orton-Kofi build-up compared to Rey-Batista, DX dissension, Sheamus stands out
CALDWELL FLASHBACK: TNA Year-End Review 2005 - Must-read flashback to when TNA became a choice for wrestlers in an era very, very similar to 2009
RADICAN'S TAKE
RADICAN: Daddy's little girl V 2.0 debuts on Impact
RADICAN: Wolfe-Angle follow up displays typical warning signs of danger from creative standpoint
RADICAN: TNA finally straps a rocket on the right ass
The Specialists
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Greed Is Good For PPV Business (Just Not For You), Jericho vs. Undertaker, Punk vs. Scott Armstrong, Batista vs. My Boredom
GARDNER'S KEY MOMENT OF THE WEEK: WWE's Even-Steven booking isn't elevating younger stars, just benefiting Triple H
11/7 WWE Smackdown Hits & Misses: Mysterio vs. Knox, Punk vs. Truth, Batista vs. Hardy
Guest Editorials
GUEST EDITORIAL: Disgruntled TNA fan says he's done with the promotion after today's Impact taping (Contains SPOILERS)
GUEST EDITORIAL: The ultimate irony - Hulk Hogan appears on TNA Impact and pre-taped TV sitcom promoting WWE on the same night
GUEST BOOK REVIEW: Hulk Hogan provides strong defense of his public image in new autobiography
Torch Feedback
WWE PPV Price Increase Reax #2: "I spent more money on Vince every year than anything else and he does not even care about me or the people like me!"
WWE PPV Price Increase Reax #1: Outrage expressed over WWE's latest PPV price raise - could the backlash cause WWE to second-guess decision?
TNA Impact Reax #3: "The build for the PPV matches somehow featured Hulk Hogan despite him yet to show up on TV"
Ask the Editor
Ask the Editor: Wouldn't incorporating MMA-style holds into pro wrestling matches just be trying to be something it's not?
ASK THE EDITOR: Have the Michaels-Batista promos crossed a line with use of insider terms, references to "jobs"?
ASK THE EDITOR: Why do wrestlers in WWE refer to wrestling as "the business" and not "the sport"?
DVDs - VGames - Books
VIDEO GAME REVIEW - Smackdown vs. Raw 2010: WWE's latest video game called best since the No Mercy measuring stick
RADICAN'S ROH DVD REVIEW SERIES: 7/24 DBD VII: N1 - Hero & Richards vs. Storm & Steen
RADICAN'S CHIKARA DVD REVIEW: 5/24 "Anniversario Yang" - The Colony vs. F.I.S.T, 8-Man Tag
Torch Flashbacks
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about Eric Bischoff, the demise of WCW
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Ric Flair
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Vince Russo
VIP Exclusive Features
11/7 Bruce Mitchell Audio Show: Reader questions on Goldberg's Winning Streak, Zbyszko's HOF Credentials, Overrated Matches, X-Pac Sucks Chants, Test's Name, Paul Ellering's Story (44 min.)
11/6 Bruce Mitchell Audio Show: Why Vince McMahon said WWE isn't a family business, Hulk Hogan-TNA analysis, Dixie Carter's last-gasp speech (65 min.)
PWTorch Newsletter #1115_16 (31 pages!): Hogan-Bischoff-TNA Deal Covered In-Depth - Keller, McNeill, and Powell, plus six pages of Eric Bischoff Torch Talk, and much more
Torch Trivia
TORCH TRIVIA 2/28: Which wrestler backed out of a WWA PPV in February 2002?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/27: Who said this quote about Hulk Hogan's athleticism 11 years ago?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/25: What said this quote about WWE's mid-1990s drug testing policy?
Torch Instant Polls
INSTANT POLL: How will WWE's price raise to $4.95 per PPV affect you?
SMACKDOWN POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/6 Smackdown if you saw the show?
TNA IMPACT POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/5 Impact if you saw the show?
PWTorch Free Podcast
11/4 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Format change to the show, new guest host, upcoming shows
FREE FOR ALL: 10/27 Bruce Mitchell Audio Special: Hogan-Bischoff-TNA story from all angles including Monday Night War II possibilities (32 min.)
6/23 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Former WCW rapmaster PN News joins Brian Hoops to preview upcoming Midwest shows (10 min.)
Annual Obituaries
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 1999 - Muchnick, Rick Rude, Owen Hart, Renegade...
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2000 - Solie, Albright, Duncum, Tsuruta, Blue Demon, Al Costello
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2001: Johnny Valentine, Terry Gordy, Chris Adams, Bertha Faye, Helen Hart